The Applicant Experience with Frank McGaha

Fear doesn’t thin the candidate pool, friction does. We sit down with federal law enforcement professional and Navy veteran Frank McGaha to unpack why agencies claim a recruiting crisis while thousands of motivated applicants stall at the digital front door. Frank has trained and mentored aspiring officers nationwide and brings a rare, ground-level view of what candidates think, where they get stuck, and how simple fixes convert interest into badges.

We get specific about what works. Frank explains how clear eligibility rules, transparent timelines, and steady, human communication stop self-elimination before it starts. He makes the case for active social media as a primary pipeline, not a side project, and shows why a recruiting-focused website with one- or two-click applications can change the game overnight. 

Culture matters as much as process. Frank addresses the myth of lowered standards and details how modern screening, social media reviews, psychological evaluations, and integrity checks demand stronger guidance, not harsher tone. He lays out a practical playbook for chiefs and recruiters: create mentorship tracks, host ride-alongs and PT prep, return calls within 48 hours, and measure what counts—conversion, not clicks. Real stories from agencies that greet prospects at the door, introduce them to leadership, and follow up quickly show how warmth and clarity outperform big budgets.

If you lead a department, recruit officers, or want to wear the badge, this conversation gives you immediate, no-nonsense steps to reduce friction and build trust. Subscribe, share this episode with your recruiting team, and leave a review with the one change you’ll make this week to open your front door wider.

Safeguard Recruiting is owned and operated by first responders, and it is a public safety recruiting firm with a proven recruiting system that staffs agencies across the country. 

Reach out today for a free consultation and learn about our guarantee that will increase the number of candidates for your agency. 

Transcript

Opening And Guest Setup

Travis Yates 0:00

Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited you decided to spend a few minutes with us today. And once again, Doug Larson, the head guy at Safeguard Recruiting. He's this is a crazy decision brain power of Doug that started this thing way back in the early 2020s. Doug, how are you doing?

Doug Larsen 0:19

Doing excellent today, Travis.

Travis Yates 0:22

Man, I know you've been busy, you've been all over the country. You got clients popping up, man. But uh we're gonna sort of put that aside today because I'm excited about today's guest. And we're gonna bring Frank McGahha on. And and Frank is his background is federal law enforcement, but he talks to new recruits and potential candidates all the time about the process of getting hired in law enforcement. And I thought it was super interesting what he had to say. He talks about getting rid of these sort of roadblocks and friction. He talks about what the sort of the what the candidates are nervous about, how departments should should address that. And I love it because it was perspective that we've been talking about a long time. But this is a guy that is training both online and in person these kids all the time about this process. And what's your thoughts on what he had to say?

Doug Larsen 1:15

Yeah, I think and we've talked about it a lot that applying for a job in law enforcement is a scary endeavor when you don't understand the process start to finish. And that's why communication is key. And he's got insight from both sides that he brings to the table. And departments can learn a lot about what your candidates are thinking each step of the way. And we don't want any of them, especially the good candidates, self-eliminating because they don't understand part of the process or where they're at or they get nervous. So this is a very important piece that I think everybody should take note on and the information he's passing along.

Travis Yates 1:50

I can't agree more. You're gonna love the conversation. Without further ado, let's get it

Frank’s Background And Mission

Travis Yates 1:56

going. Welcome back. It's such an honor to have Frank McGaha on. He's a federal law enforcement professional, he's a U.S. Navy veteran, he's the founder of Armor Gun Consulting and Training, where he helps candidates become police officers. We're gonna get into all that today, but his background has been so helpful in that. He graduated in the top 1% worldwide from the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. He served as a lead protection officer for presidential appointees across two administrations, as well as the officer in charge of a federal special weapons unit. Frank is almost exclusively helping out uh people that want almost said kids, but people that want to be police officers. And he's got such great information that I think can not only help those that are listening that want to be police officers, but also the departments that are listening that are trying to hire police officers. Frank, man, thanks for being on the show today.

Frank McGaha 2:48

Hey, I appreciate it. It's good to see you.

Travis Yates 2:51

Now, Frank, what got you interested in helping people that want to be police officers? And I will tell you, you're in a tight niche. There's not hardly anybody doing that. We talk a lot about training once people get on, but there's not much training to help people get on police department. So, what got you interested in that?

Frank McGaha 3:06

Yeah, uh, you know, I can't take the credit for this one either. Uh, the I had a mentor when I was starting my company and everything, I did exactly what every other, you know, prior military and prior law enforcement officer does. I'm gonna start a consulting firm and help with you know public safety. And that's what I did. And then I was I was looking to grow and expand and really focus and try to you know build it into something. I we were so out there doing teaching TAC med, firearms, you know, uh situational awareness, every everything, CPR, first aid, everything you could possibly think of. And then it just wasn't getting the traction that I was looking for. So an advisor said,

Is There A Recruiting Crisis

Frank McGaha 3:48

Hey, what's the question you get asked the most? I was like, ah, well, I was in law enforcement, everyone asked me how to become a cop. They said, make some content on that. I had some other content out there, it didn't do real well. I made some content on that, and then it uh it just blew up. You know, we got 10,000 views right off the bat with it. And then my advisor said, keep making content on that. And I was in the middle of law school at the time, I or I just started law school and I had to make a determination like, am I gonna go all in on this or am I gonna stay in law school? And I I said, you know what? I this is probably an area I can truly help people. I found that it wasn't niche, like you just said, no one was doing it. We kind of carved this out for ourselves, and uh, and yeah, we went all in and it's just exploded and been a blessing since then.

Travis Yates 4:32

And we all we've had multiple episodes here where we sort of put this myth to the recruiting crisis to bed. We it's an excuse that police departments use when they when they're not recruiting right and their processes aren't tight. Uh, and what we will continue to say because we have clients all over the country we're helping recruit, and there's never an issue finding candidates. I mean, I'll give you an example, Philadelphia Police Department, they would need a thousand candidates a month. We did that, and they got a thousand candidates a month, and it's been going on for two years. So it's never a shortage of finding people that want to express interest and apply police departments, but you're speaking to actual candidates, and I have a feeling you're pretty busy. You tell me, is there a so-called recruiting crisis in American law enforcement?

Frank McGaha 5:12

Absolutely not. I'm so bold to say I think we got more data than the FBI on police recruiting at this point. Yeah, there is no shortage whatsoever. I have we have over 200,000 views a month just on our little niche um social that we have going on, and we don't have a you know a whole lot of followers, but we have a little niche social. We got 200,000 views between our our two main platforms of YouTube and TikTok. And I can't keep up with the comments or the questions or anything like that. We have more leads than we can facilitate for people that are are wanting to uh get into law enforcement. All my instructors are booked up for all their open available calls.

Travis Yates 5:56

So what do you think? So what's what's the disconnect? I mean, I agree with you. What's going on with

Shared Responsibility: Candidates And Agencies

Travis Yates 6:02

these departments that continue to be 10 10, 15, 20, 25? I mean, Phoenix police right now is down 600 and they've been down 600 for years.

Frank McGaha 6:11

I think capital police is over a thousand officers short, right?

Travis Yates 6:14

Well, well, tell me, I I'll just I'll make it easy on you. It's the police department's fault, it's not the candidates' fault. So, what is the what's the disconnect within the agencies that why they can't grab these candidates?

Frank McGaha 6:27

I you know, I'm gonna blame it on both for the sheer fact that I just had a police one article that just came out discussing this, and uh, and I'm gonna say the same thing I said in that. It's both their faults. Uh, one, you have the candidates that are saying, like, you know, hey, I'm gonna put in all this work, you gotta, you gotta give me some um some feedback and everything like that. And that's true, but at the end of the day, you're still asking for employment. So you can't just sit here and say, Oh, I I did what you told me to, you now have to employ me. No, this is still an employer. You just can't go in there and be, I passed everything, you owe me a job. No, if if we're if we were going for the CEO of a Fortune 500 and we were going between me and you, right? They'd event they'd only pick one of us at one point. There's only one billet for it. So candidates have to understand that they're still asking for employment. You know, it's not this like you owe this to me concept. And then departments need to realize that you don't have the control of don't you can't sit here and say, hey, we're short staffed, and the candidates are X, Y, and Z. They don't meet you know this requirement, or they don't do this, or or they don't do that, or we're not gonna do these new hiring techniques to reach out. What's what's the analytics say? Where do most people spend their time, you know, viewing stuff? It's not you're not gonna do a TV commercial, yeah. Yeah, you're gonna do that.

Travis Yates 7:55

We get asked constantly about TV commercials and movie theater commercials, and we keep saying 90% of every application in

Social Media As A Primary Pipeline

Travis Yates 8:04

America of all industries are coming through this. Why free?

Frank McGaha 8:08

Yeah, you can advertise for free with social media. I don't want to hear if if a if a department doesn't have a social media account that is active, and I mean active, I mean you are posting on it five days a week. I mean, I'll give you the weekends off, right? You know, your weekend shift gets a break. But if you're not posting on it five days a week, and whether that's just to reach out to your community or to build you know up your um your interaction with your community, it's such a wasted resource, and it's your number one wasted resource at this point.

Travis Yates 8:41

And so uh the other thing that we keep seeing, Frank, is the front door to that police department's their website. And what we do for agencies is we build recruiting focused websites, it's just like your business, Frank. You have one goal when people come to your website, a lead. You want people to call contact you. Well, I don't know if you've been paying attention to police department websites lately. Oh no, we're we're we're gonna get we're gonna get to start, middle, and end here, but we audited over a hundred of them. None of them had a one or two click to application, none of them were open to artificial intelligence, the the AI engines actually even seeing the website. Out of a hundred, none of them. We don't we we actually offered a free service to optimize all these websites, and no one's standing in line. I mean, it's almost as if the leaders of the department are looking at their desktop with their 45-inch screen and going, This is a great looking website, but the look of the website doesn't matter. What matters is are you getting people coming through the site that want to work for you? Is that correct?

Frank McGaha 9:42

No, absolutely. I can tell you I audit webs or I audit departments every single day for our candidates, right? And one of our criteria that we'll use is

Broken Websites Block Applicants

Frank McGaha 9:52

their website, and because that's where we're gonna get their information on what's what is required for that candidate to be considered eligible. I will tell you 40% of the time, I can't even find what what that department's eligibility criteria is at this point. Well, that's low.

Travis Yates 10:08

You're giving some grace here because I mean, we I I've seen departments where I couldn't even not only find that, I couldn't even find where to apply if I wanted to.

Frank McGaha 10:16

Well, and that's that's what I'm saying. Thankfully, because of what I do, I've been able to do this so long that I can pretty much go to any government website for any local department. I mean, state's pretty pretty easy, but any local department, and I can realize I'm probably going to go to their city page. And because there's what they do is they have a landing page for the department, but not its own designated website. Which, okay, I know that, but how many other people or candidates do? Not many, right? So then I go there, I'll find that, and then I'm going there and they say, Oh, well, we advertise on federal, you know, we advertise on USA jobs. Most candidates don't even know what USA jobs are.

Travis Yates 10:55

Or how or how about my favorite one, which is uh they make the candidate click two or three times, then you have to register, then you have to remember to government jobs, register on government jobs. It's insane. And so just to give people an example of what I'm talking about, we just completed a website for the Milwaukee Police Department. Join Milwaukee PD.com. Don't go to Google because they've got some competing websites. Join MilwaukeePD.com. It's a one-page website. I don't I think you would not argue with me that it's going to be very easy to see the requirements, it's going to be very easy to submit your information. And I will tell you the first month statistics of that website, they got a 70% conversion rate of people that hit the website that said, Yes, I want to work for you. So if you're not getting a high conversion rate, there's something wrong. But what we're seeing is like I said, I don't, I it's not that they're doing it on purpose, Frank. We've never had to know this because there was there were just so many people that would wait forever to get a job, you know, that that didn't matter if the process were broken. But that website is that first point of impression. Like if it's messed up, they're gonna

Eligibility, Transparency, And Risk

Travis Yates 12:04

think your department's messed up. And that goes to that goes the same with communication. We try to tell these departments listen, when somebody expressed interest, we'll set it up an automatic text and email automatically, but then within 24, 48 hours, you've got to make a phone call, you got to meet them. Because what we have heard from a lot of candidates, and I'll be interested to see what you've heard is is if a department is not reaching out to me quickly, I think they don't care about me.

Frank McGaha 12:28

It's it's not even what I've heard. I mean, yes, that's true. Everything you just said is true. This is gonna be even worse. It's what I teach. It's what I tell a candidate. Why do you want to apply for to a department that you're unsure? I tell a department, we have a we have a department audit, right? To decide if you want to work for a department. One doesn't meet your financial needs, right? Because at the end of the day, if I say, hey, I'll make you a cop tomorrow, but you got to work 50, 60 hour weeks, I'm not gonna pay you, and I'm not gonna give you any benefits or healthcare or anything. Are you gonna do no? Because at the end of the day, it is a career, it's not just a job, but it's employment. You need it to be able to provide because if you're working 50, 60 hours a week, you're not gonna be able to go work for someplace else to do a job, right? Make money. So, one, does it meet your financial needs? Because at the end of the day, it's still employment. Two, is it obtainable and are you eligible? If I can't find out if you're eligible for that department or if they're currently hiring, which is the criteria for obtainability, are they currently hiring and do you meet eligibility requirements? If I can't find that, I'm not gonna recommend you apply to them. So if I can't find that on their website, and I'm a lot better at looking up a website than a basic candidate is because it's what I do all day, every day. If I can't find, I'm gonna say, hey, let's pick another third department because I don't want you applying to this department. And here's why. Because if they tell you no because you're ineligible, you now have to report that to every other department that you apply to, and it can snowball and cost you your career. Right. And then number three is do you support their mission? Right? Don't tell me, hey, I hate the NYPD and I'm I want to go change the NYPD from the inside out because you're not changing anything your rookie year as an officer. I can promise you that. Um, but yeah, I mean, do you support that department, that community? Is it obtainable? Are you eligible? And does it meet your financial needs? And if I can't find that information, as as your advisor, as your instructor, um, my recommendation is not to apply to that department. Pick a different one.

unknown 14:23

Right.

Travis Yates 14:24

So informative. I mean, uh, Frank, I think to have someone here on the show that actually speaks to these candidates about their decision-making process, we're gonna have to have you back, man, because this is intel the departments need. Now, unfortunately, we've heard from a lot of departments, and I'll give you one example. Uh, this department, one particular department had a big drop-off

Culture, Standards, And Modern Screening

Travis Yates 14:43

between the uh uh the application and the initial test. A lot of departments you apply first and you take the first test, and they had a significant drop-off. And so I said, Well hey, because send me the the messaging you're sending the candidate after they apply. And this messaging all but told that candidate, don't show up, you're a punk, you're the I mean it was the it was the most egregious type message, and so I asked the guy, I said, Why are you sending this message? And he goes, If they can't take it, we don't want them. And I go, Good luck with that, buddy.

Frank McGaha 15:17

Good luck with that. I'm I'm willing to uh I I understand that my career I stood on the shoulders of those that came before me. All right, I understand that. I respect everyone that came before me and everything like that. But I also hear from candidates all the time, oh, hey, yeah, I got this mentor from, you know, he's he's been an officer for 20 years. He told me just lie, just lie on my background. Or I'll speak or I'll get comments on our YouTube channel. Yeah, I was an officer, you know, back in the 90s, and uh, and yeah, we we just lied. We just did whatever we wanted all the time. And that's not what I'm doing here. My goal is to put good officers on the street. You know, everyone says, hey, let's build the bridge. You can burn that bridge down. I don't want there to be a bridge. That means we're standing on two separate pieces of land. I want law enforcement standing right next to the community served because they're part of the community. When you take off the uniform, you're just a community member. Yeah. Right. So, no, I'm not gonna sit here and and let a an old mindset because if I gave you a polygraph now, would you pass it? You know, if you weren't already an officer, you know, if you if you didn't have 20 years and and go apply to another department that has a that has a polygraph in a background that you have to go through just like a brand, would you pass it? Right. And the funny part is is uh people say, oh, it's we've we've lowered the standard. Really? Because you didn't have to do a social media review, right? Polygraphs were semi uh operational towards like 2005, 2010.

Travis Yates 16:48

Well, there's there's almost a public pressure to look for ways to not hire people these days, yeah.

Frank McGaha 16:53

And then you got the psych has completely shifted since 2020, completely shifted, and some departments even back in the uh late or early 90s, late 90s, and even early 2000s didn't even really have a psych. Don't you're not gonna ever convince me. Maybe it's not harder or easier one way or another, but it's definitely different. So, I mean, I I just I just got done interviewing new instructors, and some of them were saying, Oh, yeah, we're just you know, the candidate of officers have just dropped completely. And I'm like, this is not then gonna be the right job for

Practical Advice For Chiefs And Recruiters

Frank McGaha 17:26

you.

Travis Yates 17:26

You already have that if we we had the ear of a lot of um a lot of recruiters, police chiefs that are frustrated. If you were to give them just a quick piece of advice, if you had five minutes in front of them right now that need to hire more, what would you tell them?

Frank McGaha 17:43

If you're really looking to hire more candidates, just talk to them. Set up a mentorship program, right? Just set up a mentorship program when you can, you can even it it benefits you. You're right, you get to see them before they apply. You know, whether you're running fitness training, whether you're running, and I don't want to hear I don't have the staff for it. Well, then you don't, then you're not trying to fix your problem. Right. Right? Because you can make it happen. I I can tell you right now, if I was ever short staffed, I'm the first person volunteering at at the PT test to to help, you know, instruct the PT test or to or to do the to do the background or the board interviews for new candidates. So I can alleviate the burden on myself and other officers because we're short staffed and we're all pulling over time. Um no, it just all you have to do is talk to them. And if you make them feel like you actually care about them and like this is a good department, not just some officer mill where you're just going through and feeling that's security. That's what security does, right? Security, they hire whoever and then they fire quick, right? If the if you're gonna treat law enforcement that way, you're gonna get those type of candidates, right? And then, but if you get in there, you're gonna get a candidate that says, Well, yeah, I mean, I could go work for I could go work for ABC Police Department and make five or six grand more starting, but I I'm gonna work for XYZ PD because man, I've done ride-alongs, I've done everything. The chief has been super cordial with me, and I understand that you know that they're just being nice, but still they've made me feel welcomed.

Travis Yates 19:19

Yeah, you'll get it. Yeah, we we have a we have a client, small town of Missouri, they have no recruiting

Simple Human Touch That Converts

Travis Yates 19:25

issues and they have no budget for it. But here's what they do when somebody expressed interest, they said, come on down, come on down and meet us. And the guy walks them into the chief's office, he shakes the chief's hand, they set up a ride-along for him, and there's people standing in line. It's that simple. And well, but the issue is, Frank, back in our heyday in the 90s and 2000s, when there were thousands of people taking tests, we didn't have to have that service-oriented uh you know experience for him. But that's really all it takes, isn't it?

Frank McGaha 19:54

Yeah, I mean, well, here's the thing is you didn't you had a thousand applicants, but it was so much harder to filter through them. It's actually easier because you might only have let's say you have only 30 percent. You had a thousand applicants, you have 300, but you only have 30 billets open, right? You still have uh, you know, 10,000 times what your availability is. So now you actually get to niche down, and you know the ones that are applying now truly are just looking for a a profession where they can make a difference. Yeah. Because why why else accept all the scrutiny that comes with it?

Travis Yates 20:30

It's good stuff, Frank. So, where can people reach out to you? How can they find you if they're listening? They want to do that.

Frank McGaha 20:35

You can uh you can find us on any other social platforms at Armageddon and YouTube or or every major social platform. Um, our website's Armagednct.com, but we put out free content all day, every day, every single um week. There's no limit to it. Go wherever, just type in Armageddraining, you'll find us everywhere.

Travis Yates 20:55

That's awesome, man. Thanks for coming on. We're gonna have to have you on again. You're just a treasure trove of information.

Where To Find Frank And Closing

Travis Yates 21:00

And if you've been watching or you've been listening, thank you for doing that, and we'll see you next week.